GUN AR crew... help me (re)build my AR

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Jefferson Darcy, Mar 2, 2004.

  1. Jefferson Darcy

    Jefferson Darcy Ol' shit chest

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    Here's what I'm working with:

    [​IMG]
    My Bushmaster Shorty AK.... as you kno, with the :greddy: AW ban going the way of homosexual marriages :mamoru: Post ban rifles are old and busted, guns with all the evil features are teh new hotness.... Worst case scenario, the AW ban gets extended, I'm still making it. Either way, NY state has their own version which is not sunsetting. But since I'm a cop in the state of NY, That doesn't apply to me. So I'm either building it to commmemorate an end to the gayity, or as a big fuck you to the schumers and feinmsteins and bradys and teh rest of those cunts.

    what I am going for:
    M4 configuration, 14.5" barrel either with a permanently attatched longer flash supressor, liek the phantom... or just with the regular one, not permanetly attatched (I know this make it a SBR but as per NYS law I'm exempt... dunno about federal). A3 config, flat top. I'm buying a complete upper reciever assebly... most likely the regular one, but this thing is hot too (but almost 2x the price)
    [​IMG]

    I like bushmaster, but I'm open to suggestions of other brands for the assembly. Also looking at the Knight Armament RAS.... I would buy an complete upper from knight but it doesnt look like they sell just upper recievers :sad2:


    Telestock, of some sorts. The M4 one most likely, either from bushmaster or RRA (open to suggestions tho)

    some kind of improved grip, possibly an improved trigger assembly.

    Sight wise..... I live in the city, and the longest range shooting range we have is 200 yds, and for the unlikely event this would ever be actually used in a combat situation, it would be in an urban environment so long range is not an issue. This is an "urban" rifle. So I'm thinking an Aimpoint M2 backed up by an ARMS #40 flip up rear sight.... Open to suggestions tho. What's a good mount for the aimpoint in this configuration?

    I would like to make it selective fire semi/full auto.... but there is no way I could get a chiefs signature for that in my department :sad2: and I wouldnt know how to convert a semi auto lower anyway.

    thats about all I can think of, but I'm open to any suggestions :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2004
  2. gtcrispy

    gtcrispy New Member

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    Barrel wise Bushmaster, and RRA are good normal choices. If you are looking for more you could always have a shop build a more custom upper with a higher quality barrel. www.mstn.biz and www.adcofirearms.com come to mind. I've dealt with both of them. Very good service. There are others as well though.

    For the rail setup SIR and RAS II's are good options. I believe both FF the barrel. I personally bought he RAS II setup. You can go with a normal RAS however inorder to free float the barrel you have to get the RAS-FF.

    Don't go with a bushy or RRA stock. Much better off going with the VLTOR Clubfoot or std mod stock with the vltor tube. There is the Magpul M93 stock but its gonna run you another $100 or so over the Vltor. Both are good options.

    Have you lookd at EoTech's at all? They are becoming alot more popular. They have a 1MOA dot in the center of a 65MOA circle as compared to teh Aimpoint's single 4MOA dot. If you do get the Aimpoint, it seems alot of people are using the ARMS #22M68-EX Spacer with the #22M68 Aimpoint mount. I also have the ARMS #40 BUIS which works pretty well. I would also look at the LMT BUIS.
     
  3. Jefferson Darcy

    Jefferson Darcy Ol' shit chest

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    Ok....

    as for the stock, it looks to me (from looking at www.mstn.biz) that THe VLTOR and the magpul stocks DO NOT come with everying needed to convert from a rifle stock to a carbine stock (tube, buffer, spring) but the RRA does. I like the look of the magpul best... tho the vltor is nice too. How hard are they to install?

    I like the RAS better than the ARMS SIR. It looks to me like for the regular RAS you have to remove the front sight tower, which is not something I wanna do myself. The RASII does not require that... did you install your yourself? How hard was it? Is that extra peice on the RASII big enugh to mount the aimpoint with the 22m68? also, can the RASII be mounted with the #38 Swan Sleeve? If not I'mma probably have to go with the RAS FF

    I'm not planning on buying everything at once... First the new upper assembly, the Swan Sleeve and the aimpoint. Then the RAS and finally one of those Surefire lights that has an intergral foward grip to mount on the RAS :cool:
     
  4. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    ok...

    if you're getting a 14.5" barrel, make SURE federal laws do not apply to you. i can't remember how they work for LEOs. when you leave the force, you may have to give them the barrel, but you should be able to keep the rest if you bought it.

    as for how to configure it, you've got a good start. i prefer the Vltor to the magpul M93(A), for its compartments. the magpul is solid, and more adjustable, and some like the cheek weld better. some don't. yes, you need a milspec buffer tube, buffer, and spring to use the Vltor, and i guess the M93 (i've never really researched that). the SIR is better than the RASII if you want a continuous rail, but the RASII has that hump which can give better positioning depending on the optic you choose. the problem with that hump is that you CANNOT use a carry handle with it on there. but, it's easy to pull the RASII off and put normal handguards on if you ever need to. the RAS and the SIR are both good because they freefloat the barrel without having to remove the barrel nut. i don't know about the FSB for the SIR, but you don't have to remove it for the RASII.

    as for a good mount for the M2 on a RASII, i don't know. i forget which numbers, but the ARMS lever mounts are perfect for the SIR, since you can mount the aimpoint anywhere down the continuous rail. if you don't have a continuous rail, like me with my A3 upper and standard carbine handguards, ARMS makes a lever mount that cantilevers forward to give the M2 the proper eye relief. i think that hump on the RASII is exactly where an M2 needs to be, but i'm not positive.

    i prefer the aimpoint to the eotech. i like the 4MOA dot, the battery life (up to 20,000 hours with the dual battery compartment), and the adjustability of brightness the M2 gives. the ML2 can be used with nightvision on the first 4 settings.

    bushmaster, DPMS, and colt are the way to go on barrels. stick to the milspec companies. RRA uses 4140 barrel steel, and doesn't chrome plate bores or chambers unless you request it, which costs more. the other three above use 4150 steel, which is harder, and more durable to wear, heat, and stress. 4150 is milspec; 4140 is not. also, get M4 feed ramps cut into your reciever. send it off to a pro like kurt at kurt's kustom to have the ramps matched to the barrel extension. do not do this yourself unless you have the money to replace the reciever or barrel if you fuck up.

    another thing to look at is the new knight's and LMT bolts. the ones with rounded lugs won't work in a stock barrel extension, and i don't think it's worth the money to buy the shit needed to make it work, not right now, but KAC makes a version of the bolt with standard lugs that i'd at least look at. it has the new dual-spring extractor, which, with M4 feed ramps and normal cleaning, ought to remove pretty much all chances of rifle-related malfunctions. extra strength extractor springs also help on a standard bolt.

    as for lights, surefire is the best. the M900 is expensive, but it covers all the lighting issues: navigation, illumination, pistol grip, tapeswitch. however, if you don't need navigation lights, or don't want to spend that much money, you could buy a different light and use a standalone grip. my personal preference is the tango down vertical grip. it's much thicker, and has a slight D-shape that fits the hand better than any other grip i've ever tried. it also has a recessed slot for a tapeswitch. it's got a watertight compartment inside that can hold a spare bolt assembly, batteries, whatever. best of all: it's the strongest, most stable, secure grip out there. it won't fit the bottom rail of the SIR at the moment, until TD makes a new SIR bottom rail to fit it. or, you could shave a few hundredths of an inch off the edges of the rail-contact surface of the grip and it's fine. if you do that, it might not work as well on other rails, though, since the SIR is slightly out of spec, and the others are in spec.

    a #40 is a good backup sight, but if you use an aimpoint, you'd be better off with a cutoff carry handle rear sight. the #40 is meant for the M4 front sight base, which, unless you buy a colt M4 barrel, you will not get. the others are shorter than colt's, and since the ARMS BUIS is designed for the military, it matches the height of the colt, not bushmaster or DPMS. this will mean that you will have to work harder to get your groups down to where they need to be. you may not be able to do so without a new front sight post at the least, new FSB at the most. if you use a cutoff bushmaster carry handle with a bushmaster FSB, you're good to go. it doesn't get in the way any more than the #40, and since you can cowitness with the aimpoint, you're good to go. LMT makes a rear sight like a cutoff carry handle, but it is also for the colt-height FSB.

    the vortex is the best flash hider out there, but i worry about the prongs bending. if this happens, you could experience anything from no accuracy to actually hitting the flash hider with the next round fired. also, the open prongs can get stuff caught in them. the phantom is the next best thing, and it doesn't face those problems, so it will be what goes on my new barrel after september. if you ever plan on getting a suppressor, you might also look at quick-detatch flash hiders. the gemtech bilock and the AAC QD flash hiders are two such products. it'll depend on what suppressor you end up going with.

    anyways, that's a start.
     
  5. Jefferson Darcy

    Jefferson Darcy Ol' shit chest

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    what about the ARMS #38 Swan sleeve with the integral flip up sight? Does that work with the regular front site? Also, will that mount with teh RAS2?

    also what is navigation lights?
     
  6. USMCsilver

    USMCsilver Active Member

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    I don't believe the super extended Swan will work with a RAS, IIRC. However, if you get the short sleeve, you should be fine. The site is great; it is the #40 flip up and is nice and accurate and holds a zero when removed and re-mounted.

    As far as the Nav lights go, I believe that they are being referred to as being on the Surefire M900a.

    Your set-up sounds pretty good, but I would stay away from the SIR system. Kinda pointless, bulky, heavy, and serve no specific purpose. A RAS will accomplish everything the SIR will.

    As far as sling mounts go, I could not be more happy with my GG&G front and rear sling things. Also, I have a Knights side sling adapter on the side of my RAS in case I wanna mount the QD sling there. Or, if I wanna use a single point sling, I also have a GG&G single point sling mount at the base of my receiver where it meets the stock. 4 slingmounts? Yeah, kinda pointless, but functional and it isn't much added weight...

    Here's ma doll:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Jefferson Darcy

    Jefferson Darcy Ol' shit chest

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    yea I was planning on getting the standard swan sleeve, not the extended or super extended... but I was wondering if the swan sleeve would work with the RAS II, which is the one with the extra peice

    [​IMG]

    Did you install your RAS yourself? how hard was it?
     
  8. GunShow

    GunShow You had best unfuck yourself

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    The RAS forend came as a standard item on my KMC SR-15 and I find this system to be excellent. As far as mounts for the Aimpoint are concerned I would also recommend the ARMS 22M68 with the cantilever extension. I am also a big fan of the KMC 300 meter flip up sights that came on my rifle.

    As far as Federal laws I would do some more reading to ensure that you are not breaking any of them regardless of the fact that you are an LEO.

    Also does anyone know if these laws apply differently to state and federal law enforcement?
     
  9. Jefferson Darcy

    Jefferson Darcy Ol' shit chest

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    Ok.... Now, heres another question regarding that. I looked into it, the VLTOR comes with nothing but teh stock itself, the Magpul has its own tube.

    The bushmaster 6 position telestock comes with everything and is $99. I just ordered it.... If I ever wanted to swap (really when I get underway with putting this thing together), could I use the tube, buffer and spring for the Vltor? I know I could use the Buffer and spring for the magpul but that shit is $$$$$

    Also, has anyone ever swapped a regular stock for a telestock? how hard is that to do?
     
  10. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    if it's a milspec tube, buffer, and spring, you're good to go. you could call bushmaster and ask.
     
  11. gtcrispy

    gtcrispy New Member

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    I haven't got my RAS II yet. It comes friday. No need to removew Front Sight Post. You just remove the handguards and put it together. Looks to be pretty easy.

    For the Vltor it uses its own tube. Once again.. from what i've heard its more solid feeling. I've never used one but often people complain about the collapsable stocks feeling kind of "loose".
     
  12. Jefferson Darcy

    Jefferson Darcy Ol' shit chest

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    I'm having a hard time deciding between teh SIR and the RAS II :sad2:

    the big advantage with the SIR is u can get the complete bushmaster upper with that already installed, which is a big advantage to me....

    anyone used the SIR?
     
  13. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    my best friend uses a sir. a front sight base is no big thing to deal with if you have punches, and other tools commonly used for firearms. if you're barrelling the upper yourself, you've probably got most of the tools to do other things too. with a front sight base, it's just a matter of knocking the two pins out, pulling it off (if there's no flash hider in the way) and doing what you need to do. it's an inconvenience, but it's not hard. the FSB will only go on in one position, but you will need to resight-in a rifle if it's been sighted in before you do this to it. if you free float it, or rebarrel it, you'll need to do the same anyways. the RASII is nice because it goes on and comes off fast. in a matter of minutes or less, you can have the whole thing on or off. the SIR is a bit more involved than that. but, it gives you one continuous rail with no humps, which the RASII does not. the new URXII and the taylor rail system are two railed forends that provide a continuous rail without going over the upper reciever, but i'm not sure how either attaches.

    the SIR is also fairly heavy, but the newer, lower profile ones are probably less so. you can take the bottom panel off a SIR for cleaning, but the whole thing doesn't come off easily.

    as for the Vltor, my friend with the SIR has on the same rifle a Vltor clubfoot modstock. VERY solid, very comfortable, and very cool. it gives a good cheek weld for me.
     
  14. Jefferson Darcy

    Jefferson Darcy Ol' shit chest

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    :cool:

    I ordered a bushmaster telestock, in the hopes I could swap it out for a vltor at some time.... BUT I just found out the busmaster stocks are not mil spec, only the colts are....

    Does anyone offer a full assembly for the vltor, with buffer, tube and spring?

    anyway, I'm leaning more towards teh bushmaster upper that comes with the military SIR alreay installed.
     
  15. gtcrispy

    gtcrispy New Member

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    All you need to do is send Mstn a email. Tell them which Vltor stock you want and that you need the tube and all necessary hardware for your rifle. They will take care of it.

    One consideration if you want to order now. You can get the RAS II, 3 11-rib panels, a 6-rib panel and the vertical handgrip for $275. Its a Shot Show special price. This would save you some money and the RAS II should be easy to install. The only hard part i can see is just removing the handguards which would might just take an extra hand to push the delta ring down all the way so you can pull them off.

    This place thas them in stock. Located in Florida. Thats where I ordered mine. Give them a call or email them.
    Excalibur Arms Inc
    FFL/CL III SOT
    772-285-2353
    www.sr-25.com
     
  16. Jefferson Darcy

    Jefferson Darcy Ol' shit chest

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    :eek3: thats a good price. I looked on the website, it didnt have that in the specials section... but I'm gonna give them an Email.... I havent decided between the RASII and ther SIR system yet tho :sad2:


    I emailed MSTN and cancelled my order with bushmaster for their collapsible stock, I'm better off just going with the VLTOR from the door since I cant use teh tube from teh bushmaster stock anyway.
     
  17. gtcrispy

    gtcrispy New Member

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    Good choice. Personally i don't think you can too wrong with either rail setup. The SIR is going to cost you more then the RAS II on sale and in the end Bushmaster is gonna charge you even more for the SIR because they are installing it for you. I wouldn't worry about having to install a RAS II. There are directions on www.quarterbore.com to install it and I'm sure it will come them as well.
     
  18. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    there are a LOT of people on the ARFCOM equipment exchange selling the Vltor for $189, WITH the buffer tube, buffer, and spring, and both battery panels. that's the best deal i know of.


    as for you making a postban into a preban, you might wait until september to do that, or stop talking about it, because if you do it now, even as a cop, you're breaking federal law. i found out that you cannot manufacture a preban rifle yourself (and that's what you'd be doing). you must either purchase an LEO rifle from a manufacturer (and you have to have a dept. letterhead to do so), or send yours off to a title II manufacturer to have them put one together (still with the dept. letterhead). as for converting a rifle to select fire? forget it. the dept. must own any post-1986 machine guns. you cannot own one unless you have a class III FFL. you could buy a registered reciever if your state allows it, though.
     
  19. Jefferson Darcy

    Jefferson Darcy Ol' shit chest

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    tru I'm gonna wait till september :)
     
  20. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    okay, i found out more about the SIR after we talked on AIM.

    neither the civilian or the military model require any removal of the FSB. the military model requires removal of the delta ring. the civlian model does not. both will install with nothing more than a coin (a penny works fine) and some loc-tite (use blue, unless you never want to get it back off again). you'll need more tools than that to get the delta ring off, but once it's off, install is easy on the military model. there are no disadvantages to using the civilian model, and the only difference is that the civvy model doesn't require you to do much of anything to install it.

    i don't know if you've considered other FF systems, like the MRE, the daniel day, and whatnot. anyways, the SIR and the RASII are going to be the only ones that attach to the rifle in a way that doesn't require a new barrel nut or undoing of the barrel nut. for this, you pay more. RASII's are going for $275, shipped, with all the panels and the KAC foregrip over at ar15.com.

    i don't feel a pressing need for a freefloated system, just one that will hold up to shit, and still be easy to get on and off. so, i may end up going with either the SF M73 or some other such thing.
     
  21. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    if you get the full reciever-length swan sleeve, then later get the SIR or the RASII, you'll then need to buy the #40 BUIS, and find something else to do with the sleeve. if you don't get it that long, you might have a hard time mounting the optic on a level rail, instead of two rails that are differing heights.
     

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