# and kiss closed on Sat night v. I am not getting any better

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by Falconer, Aug 20, 2007.

  1. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I know I said I wasn't posting here until I approached 500 women but this is relevant to my progress.

    I am still unable to generate attraction unless it is there immediately from the beginning (ie. she finds me to be good-looking). When I approach sets I get "uh why are you talking to me/us" vibes. This only occurs when attraction is not present.

    The girl I referred to in the subject was initially attracted to me (I am better looking than her). This hurts my progress because it plays into what I refer to as my "old" (pre-PUA) model. I started talking to her randomly and she was receptive to conversation because she was attracted to me right off the bat (based entirely on looks). I didn't apply any MM/PUA/whatever techniques to generate attraction and therefore I am not making any progress.

    After talking to her for a bit I realized I was already past the attraction stage and was moving into comfort. I gave her a little shit, ie., asked her some questions and when she gave replies that matched my opinions I said something like "good, I almost had to stop talking to you right there." :rofl:

    I did some kino tests, such as high fiving her and checking to see if she dropped her hand or grabbed my hand and held it afterward (she held it), etc. It was cool to actually knowingly apply something like that.

    At the end my friend and I were leaving and she gave me a hug (and didn't let go). I said "you seem pretty cool; it's a pity we probably won't ever run into each other again." She said "well, you could call me..." I said "I could, but I don't have your number..." she goes "well you haven't asked." I go "well, you haven't offered." She's all "I'm offering now," so I got her number, gave her another hug and a kiss, and was on my way.

    So this just confirms what I already knew:

    - I cannot generate attraction when it is not there from the beginning
    - Once I have rapport with someone I generally don't fuck it up
    - I overthink everything while it's happening, but I was glad I was able to actively apply a kino test or two and understand the results on the fly.

    She seems pretty cool and she was cute. I will probably try to go on a date with her.
     
  2. ptwiggens

    ptwiggens New Member

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    what are you using as your opener?

    Are you false time constraining?

    What kind of body language are you using on the approach? Do you walk straight up to them... are you talking over your shoulder...?
     
  3. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    I don't remember what I used on this girl. Like I said, she was attracted to me from the beginning so the opener didn't matter.

    Yeah.

    Probably crappy body language. While I can read other people's body language, I seem to be retarded when it comes to my own. I have numerous books on BL and also David D's body language DVD courses. I'm working on it.
     
  4. giz

    giz Active Member

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    I don't quite understand why you are giving this example, a situation in which you say attraction work wasn't needed, as proof that you can't develop attraction.

    Also, that number close sounded painful to even read. I'd advise against such submissive approach in the future.

    I have class, but I'll come back later with more thought-out response.
     
  5. ptwiggens

    ptwiggens New Member

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    I didn't mean on her... I meant as your stock opener what are you using?
     
  6. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    You are going into sets with these assumptions about how people will respond to you that are based on your previous model of attraction. The girls are then behaving accordingly. This has no practical application since you cannot magically control your underlying beliefs anymore than a deeply religious person could snap his fingers and realize that he's talking to himself.

    However, if you would like to shatter your old reality, why don't you go ahead and FAIL to gain attraction from a girl who you deem uglier than you. You just need to fail once and your old model is destroyed, right?
     
  7. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Right. But just because a girl is uglier than me doesn't mean that she's attracted to me, just like how there are girls that are better looking than me but I'm not attracted to them because they're not my type.

    giz, yeah upon reading my number close that does sound bad. I took it one step too far. But I still like the first line I used to initiate it.
     
  8. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    You said you dated some beautiful women. If you saw someone of that hotness and that type right now, do you feel like you could pick them up? If not, why?
     
  9. Cthalupa

    Cthalupa New Member

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    Based on the number bit, it sounds like you're in a somewhat reactive frame. This can be sort of hard to break out of, because being reactive doesn't necessarily mean you end up reacting poorly, but things aren't in your control, so you end up just squeaking by. It looks sort of like you start in control, but start to relinquish it to the girl as that conversation thread progresses.
     
  10. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    No.

    The hot women I dated were anomalies in that they just happened to be "on my wavelength."

    The majority of hot women, and people in general, are not.

    But the beautiful women I dated, it was instant attraction for both of us. There was no need to generate attraction, no MM or PUA or RSD or anything. It just happened. When that is NOT the case (the majority of the time), I cannot generate attraction. And that is my problem.

    And I'm going to end here before I backward rationalize for 5 pages...
     
  11. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Gawd damn... I am going to back quietly out of this one. That is a powerful negative thought loop generator you have got there
     
  12. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    It's based on 26 years of experience. It's not like I woke up one day and go "I'm going to apply this model to my life." It was more like years and years of social data resulted in this model.

    When 95% of people I meet don't want to talk to me (or I don't want to talk to them), that's consistent data.

    When 5% of people I meet click instantly with me, that's consistent data.
     
  13. Cthalupa

    Cthalupa New Member

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    You have to forget what you've been socially conditioned to believe.
     
  14. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    It's hard. I force feed myself new social interaction models but the old one creeps through constantly because it's accurate for me. IBselffulfillingprophecy. Again, this is what I've come up with based on my life and therefore cannot be a self fulfilling prophecy when it's based on historic data.
     
  15. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Your "data" is skewed.

    You are not talking about data that you have "observed" while standing around with a notepad.

    You are talking about data that you have, effectively, caused.
     
  16. Cthalupa

    Cthalupa New Member

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    It's not prophetic - it's you looking at experiences and data from a different type of social interaction, and applying what you expect to your new model for interaction, which ends up giving it a very large flaw.
     
  17. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    Hmmm.

    Let me think about that for a bit.
     
  18. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Are you even entertaining the possibility of a negative thought loop generator?
     
  19. Falconer

    Falconer OT Supporter

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    To be honest I've never heard of that before, altho I have an idea of what it could be.
     
  20. Cthalupa

    Cthalupa New Member

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    Basically, just that you think something negative, and that makes you think more negative things. All that is is saying you have a cycle of thinking negatively, which in turn only makes you think more negatively.
     
  21. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    I'm half joking. I made the term up.*

    What I'm trying to say is that you should look to see where your rationalizations point.

    If they all point in the same direction, then you are not being reasonable, you are rather constructing reasons to arrive at a certain conclusion over and over again.

    Let's wait and see where your thoughts take you now, having (temporarily) dismantled the "data" argument.

    *edit: "negative thought loop" is a term from elsewhere
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2007
  22. NCS

    NCS Active Member

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    First of all im curious - even without attraction, how long can you hang in sets? IMO if you cant stick around a good 20 minutes in a mixed set WITHOUT attraction your social skills still need work, and THAT is why you're getting wierd vibes. its not "i can't generate attraction" but its "this guy is wierd". If you eliminate #2 you'll get a lot more of #1 without polishing "game".

    even when i don't generate attraction i will either come off as a cool guy because i am, or at worst, an asshole because i pushed things too far / too much alcohol. but never the 'wierd' thing. and my posture sucks yet i manage to get by. i was just in the US on vacation and things went really well (btw its easy mode over there). i ended up making a lot of approaches and almost all of them led to a #close. i'll make a thread on this when i have a dead afternoon at work.

    negative thought loops - as JJJ said are fucking awful. if this starts happening go on vacation in your head. stop trying to game and just make approaches and be your current self (don't push game, just push the approach and then small talk it).

    last but not least, you can spark a minimal amount of attraction in anybody however things will only actually go well with girls that are compatible with you on SOME level should you chose to connect on THAT level. Ever been talking to random people at a party and all of a sudden due to a common interest/knowledge you click with a girl 20 minutes into conversation? Thats what i mean. Your job is A) be an attractive guy, B) approach and spark attraction, C) connect+vibe

    now while i have not seen you in action, i've seen a picture of you so nothing physical is holding you back. your body language could be off, but mine def is alhtough i somehow convey confidence (not as a technique. its just there). B) you are approaching. any witty line from any method will get the ball rolling in the right direction. I believe, from what i gather from your posts, that you're actually having trouble connecting with the girls. I could take any guy and have him get flirtatious responses but if he doesn't connect quickly he'll lose that momentum.

    Keep at it dude. Hope that helped somewhere.


    edit: there is such a thing as negative thought loops but i dont remember the term. cognitive distortion loops? i dont know. the idea is that you beat yourself up over something bad over and over and even though it was only one event, if you replayed it 20 times, it is like having 20 bad experiences.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2007
  23. ednorthwood

    ednorthwood New Member

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    Good thread.
     
  24. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    You said you weren't going to post here anymore. No excuses. You know there are better places than here for pickup advice. Much better places. Hold yourself to your commitment or you will never accomplish anything. Start NOW.
     
  25. ware_ru

    ware_ru I know, I know, I'm amazing

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    Wow I just saw that you posted in ANOTHER thread too. My, my was I right...
     

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