alternatives to "good mornings"

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by Casino, May 28, 2006.

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  1. Casino

    Casino OT Supporter

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    they are in my workout and i was reading about them online. since im pretty new to lifting weights, i want to be careful, are there any alternatives that can take the place of them? heres is my workout, i got in from a post on OT somewhere:
    Monday
    Squats-5x5(Do four progressively heavier sets of 5 with the 5th set being your 5RM.)
    Deadlifts-5x5(Do the same)
    Bench Press-5x5(Do the same)
    Incline DB Press-2x12-20

    Wednesday
    Light Squats or Lunges-4x8 each leg
    Good Mornings-3x8-12
    Shoulder Press-5x5 or Dips-4xmax until you get 12 each time. then add weight.
    Pullups-4xmax

    Friday
    Squats-warmup to a 3 reps with 5 more lbs than you used on Monday. On the following monday use this weight for your 5th set. - WARM UP TO A THREE REP MAX WITH 5lbs MORE THAN YOUR HEAVIEST SET ON MONDAY. THE NEXT MONDAY USE THAT WEIGHT ON YOUR LAST SET.
    Bent Over Row-5x5
    Incline Bench-5x5
    Tricep Extensions-2x12-20

    i want to see results so ill obviously have to use weight that will challenge me, but i also want to be careful since im pretty new
     
  2. disblohs

    disblohs I can't shake this little feeling I'll never get a

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    eating a pear is potentially dangerous. stop being a pussy.
     
  3. uf20wop

    uf20wop OT Supporter

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    just fucking do the GMs
     
  4. Delt Smasher

    Delt Smasher Guest

    "good nights"
     
  5. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

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    romanian deadlift....there's no point in doing GMs unless you're a powerlifter or strongman
     
  6. hootpie

    hootpie New Member

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    Just do GM's...I started with just the bar too (45lb) and now I'm up to 155lb. Just make sure you do them with proper form and stay within your limits and you'll be fine.

    Whenever I do GM's at the gym, I catch at least one girl staring at my ass :o...well, my girlfriend catches them and tells me about it.
     
  7. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

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    Eric Cressey writes:

    Generalizations are a very dangerous thing. I think it's fair to say that the ordinary folks who criticize you for doing GMs assume that you're using the exercise to train the lumbar erectors and not the entire posterior chain, specifically the glutes and hamstrings. Essentially, these individuals fail to differentiate between lumbar and pelvic motion.

    I'll be blunt; rounding the lumbar spine under compressive loads is not a good thing. In the position of full forward flexion, the passive structures (discs, ligaments and thoracolumbar fascia) and NOT the muscles bear the overwhelming majority of the load. This occurrence is referred to as the "flexion relaxation response of the erector spinae."(3,4) This position is bad enough for the ordinary trainee, but even worse for folks with shear instability conditions like spondylolisthesis.

    In fact, this group of individuals should avoid lumbar flexion exercises such as sit-ups and even reverse hypers, which have received much praise in rehabilitating lower back injuries of different sorts.

    So what can we do to make good mornings safe? How about a little of modern-day natural selection in a resistance training context where only the strongest survive? Let's say that we have 100 trainees that represent the gym-going population as a whole. Roughly 65 of these individuals will be deconditioned with a complete lack of proficiency in any realm of fitness; we can eliminate them from the good morning pool immediately. For the sake of this argument, based on all the emails I receive and my experience on the T-Nation forums, I'm going to estimate that the majority of our readers are in the "Upper 35" echelon.

    I'd estimate that 20 of this echelon's trainees, although possessing an average level of general fitness, need to be focusing on other core exercises before moving to those (like good mornings) that sit a little higher-up on the risk continuum. Exercises like deadlifts, squats, various presses, rows, dips and a boatload of prehab work are what they need. Good mornings may come eventually, but they don't need to worry about crossing that road just yet.

    That's not to say, however, that there aren't steps to be taken in anticipation of crossing that road. Specifically, it's important that they learn the concept of abdominal bracing to optimize spinal stability. As Stuart McGill has vehemently advocated, you should imagine "locking the rib cage to the pelvis."(5) A ton of core work is just what the doctor ordered, in these cases.

    Serious postural issues and substitution patterns in the lumbo-pelvic area are contraindications to really hitting GMs hard. An accentuated lordotic curve is the most concerning issue on this front; if your lumbar erectors are overactive to compensate for a lack of glute and hamstring contribution, the only way to pre-stretch the "faulty" prime movers and potentiate force generation is lumbar flexion. As I noted above, the flexion relaxation response phenomenon makes this a very bad idea.

    The remaining 15 are in a position where they can properly execute GMs, -that is, unless they have a significant (either cumulative or single traumatic) history of lower back injuries. If they're part of this at-risk population, I recommend that they stay away from GMs altogether. Last I heard, it's estimated that about 80% of people have some sort of lower back pain during their lives, so this issue obviously carries over to the aforementioned trainee groups, too. I'd estimate that this eliminates another three trainees, 20% of our hardcore crew.

    We're down to twelve legitimate candidates, eight of whom can safely perform the GMs in 5+ range, but their form goes down the tubes when the weight gets too heavy and they panic. In my experience, form is far more likely to crap out under heavy loading than it is under accumulated fatigue in the last few reps of a set.

    This leaves us with the Final Four. What can I say? I'm writing this from the college basketball capital of the universe during March Madness, and I went with the mood. These four T-Men are ready for "chaos training" as outlined by Dave Tate here.

    Brace the core, maintain a neutral spine, and you're good to go. Potvin et al. (1991) asserted that "the risk of injury may be influenced more by the degree of lumbar flexion than the choice of stoop or squat technique."(4) If you only take one thing away from this article, let it be that the spine should not flex under heavy load.

    So, out of 100 trainees, I estimate that twelve are actually able to handle GMs in their programming, and only four of them can get really hit them heavy. In T-Man terms, it works out to about a third of you doing them, but only one-tenth of you doing them balls-to-the-wall. Then again, even that is going to be dependent on your goals.

    In consideration of the good morning debate, I'm reminded of something Dr. Jeff Anderson, Director of Sports Medicine at the University of Connecticut, said to me once: "If you live your life the right way, you'll likely find yourself in an orthopedist's office at some point. If you live it the wrong way, you'll likely end up in cardiologist's office instead."(6).

    Need proof? Granhed and Morelli (1988) found that retired heavyweight lifters demonstrated a markedly greater reduction in disc height on x-rays when compared with age-matched controls.(7) You simply need to find how far toward one end of the spectrum you want to be. If you want to do something incredible, you need to be willing to take risks while maximizing safety.


    3. McGill SM. The mechanics of torso flexion: situps and standing dynamic flexion manoeuvres. Clin Biomech (Bristol, Avon). 1995 Jun;10(4):184-192.

    4. Potvin JR, McGill SM, Norman RW. Trunk muscle and lumbar ligament contributions to dynamic lifts with varying degrees of trunk flexion. Spine. 1991 Sep;16(9):1099-107.

    5. McGill, S. Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance. Stuart McGill, PhD, 2004.

    6. Anderson, J. Personal Communication. November, 2003.

    7. Granhed H, Morelli B. Low back pain among retired wrestlers and heavyweight lifters. Am J Sports Med. 1988 Sep-Oct;16(5):530-3.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2006
  8. Durk

    Durk New Member

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    Suprnova :ugh:
     
  9. Devil

    Devil I have become my terror. OT Supporter

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    good one
     
  10. nubian

    nubian Active Member

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    wrong .... :nono:

    good afternoons
     
  11. deadbolt

    deadbolt New Member

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    :ugh::ugh::ugh:


    good evenings
     
  12. Delt Smasher

    Delt Smasher Guest

    04 with no lower back...

    RIGHT?!?
     
  13. kronik85

    kronik85 New Member

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    i do 'em, but i dont do them as heavy as i could. *shrug*
     
  14. MaineSucks

    MaineSucks OT Supporter

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  15. JordanClarkson

    JordanClarkson OT Supporter

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    +1 for RDL's
     
  16. Casino

    Casino OT Supporter

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    So if I do romanian deadlifts, how many should I do? here is what the day would consist of:

    Wednesday
    Light Squats or Lunges-4x8 each leg
    Romanian Deadlift (HOW MANY?!)
    Shoulder Press-5x5 or Dips-4xmax until you get 12 each time. then add weight.
    Pullups-4xmax
     
  17. BlinginAssRims

    BlinginAssRims Now I'm blaumped out

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    5x5 just like you would GMS
     
  18. Devil

    Devil I have become my terror. OT Supporter

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    except the routine doesn't call for 5x5 for gm's :mamoru:
     
  19. PreemO

    PreemO OT Supporter

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    youre doing 8-12 range with GMs. you wont be moving heavy weight, about 50% 1RM range
     
  20. ralyks

    ralyks New Member

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    And goodnight :rofl:

    ibnoonegetsit
     
  21. Casino

    Casino OT Supporter

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    so how many reps and sets should i do with romanian deadlifts?
     
  22. Ceaze

    Ceaze https://hearthis.at/DoYouEvenUplift Moderator

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    the same as gm's
     
  23. Casino

    Casino OT Supporter

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    thank you
     
  24. BlinginAssRims

    BlinginAssRims Now I'm blaumped out

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    SNAPE!
     
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