Altering the Bob Starr modified routine for more recovery time...

Discussion in 'Fitness & Nutrition' started by Layman, Jul 9, 2006.

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  1. Layman

    Layman New Member

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    It occurs to me that the audience the routine was created for is college athletes - not ~30yos with demanding careers. I honestly don't get enough sleep, have good enough eating habits, etc to make good gains on this routine in the long term. I think it helped jump start me into squats and DLs, but I don't see it lasting in the long term.

    Yes, I'm sure people (mostly college guys) are going to say shit like "you need to make time to sleep/eat/etc" but yeah - that isn't going to happen. I want to get big and strong, but I don't need another "thing" to rule my life.

    So three days a week is good, but squating three days a week isn't.


    So I'm thinking about the following for a new routine, migrating away from the Bob Starr (which I like, but I don't think is maximizing my potential gains). Any thoughts? :noes:



    Monday
    Squats-5x5(Do four progressively heavier sets of 5 with the 5th set being your 5RM.)
    Good Mornings-3x8-12
    Military Press-5x5
    Side lateral raises or reverse flys-3x12
    Calf raises-3x12

    Wednesday
    Bench Press-5 sets, warm up to 3 rep max
    Incline Bench-5x5
    Dips-4xmax until you get 12 each time. then add weight.
    Tricep Extensions-2x12-20

    Friday
    Deadlifts-5x5
    Bent Over Row-5x5
    Pullups or lat pulldowns-4xmax
    Curls in the squat rack-5x5
    Shrugs-3x12

    This also focuses a bit more on my trouble spots - arms and lats...
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2006
  2. tkluu

    tkluu New Member

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    yeah too much squatting for me also

    switched 2nd day to light front squats

    3rd day to clean and jerks
     
  3. kidbv2

    kidbv2 New Member

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    Well, I don't want to be the college guy you talked about in your post...

    But squats three times a week is essential to the program (at least as I understand it). When I started it, I felt it was way too much volume; I dreaded going to the gym those first 4 weeks (I did a dual factor version). But then the gains started coming, and coming. So I've stuck with the 5x5. Each time I start it again, I know it's going to suck in those first weeks, but it'll be worth it.

    If I didn't feel like I was doing too much, I'd know I was doing too little. If that makes any sense. The point is taxing your body.

    That's all IMO. If you achieve your goals with the modifications you've set up, more power to ya.
     
  4. Layman

    Layman New Member

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    Well, I've been doing it for a little over two months. I like the program a lot, but I know that I'm not getting as much out of it as I could. And like I said, it's designed for people in very different situations than myself.

    Also, I'm simply not making any progress at all on bench, so I need to change something up...

    You're right, though - I wouldn't call this a modified Bob Starr by any means.
     
  5. Durk

    Durk New Member

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    It's only two actual Squat days, the light one is pretty much form work, I'm sure you can handle it

    If you're taking out the squats, just do something else, they ARE the program

    As far as bench, a lot of people don't get much from it, but again, it's mainly a squat program
     
  6. Layman

    Layman New Member

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    I should have clarified:

    I can handle it - I have been. But I don't think it's as beneficial as another kind of program could be.

    And yeah, I'm talking about migrating to another style of program.
     
  7. Layman

    Layman New Member

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    Yeah - and that's my big problem area. I'm /okay/ at squats and DL, but I'm pathetic on bench...
     
  8. Lurker111

    Lurker111 New Member

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    "Curls in the squat rack- 5x5"

    Are you trying to get more weight on curls? I'd go with fewer sets more reps for curls (you are already doing rows and pullups that day anyways)...then again I don't really do any curls.

    Just the opinion of another 30year old who actually did the routine as originally outlined for about 7 months.
     
  9. Moolex

    Moolex New Member

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    Isn't it Bill Starr?
     
  10. grampositivecocci

    grampositivecocci New Member

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    you havent really improved it for recovery, you've just dropped squatting because you're a pussy.

    Just stick the overall routine and drop intensity or volume on some things if you're getting overly stressed.

    It just looks to me like you want to work upper body more, not improve recovery.
     
  11. Durk

    Durk New Member

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    :roflw:

    Layman, just leave the BILL Starr routine and do an upper lower split, then you can focus on your bench doing it heavy one day and acessory on the other
     
  12. khari

    khari Guest

    Keep it like it was in the sticky, just cycle the intensity or volume. For example every forth week or so you could do 3x3 instead of 5x5 using the same weights you used for the 5x5.
     
  13. Layman

    Layman New Member

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    :hsugh:

    Yes. Everybody who doesn't do squats three times a week is a pussy.

    WTF would dropping the intesity buy me? Yet slower progress? Great idea.

    I want to improve recovery AND work more upper body. I am clearly dropping the routine - I'm just asking for opinions on what I'm thinking of doing.


    Thanks - you've been a great help. :fawk:
     
  14. Layman

    Layman New Member

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    Damnit! That's the second time I've done that!
     
  15. Layman

    Layman New Member

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    Curls in the squat rack is a joke. I'll be doing curls of one kind or another, but not in the squat rack...

    So you think 3x10-12 would be better for the curls? Probably a good idea. Thanks.
     
  16. Jeg1983

    Jeg1983 OT Supporter

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    There are only two squat days

    All I see is you complaining that squatting is to hard Capt. Upperbody
     
  17. Layman

    Layman New Member

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    It's not too hard, fucktard. I can do squats every day if I wanted.

    The question is: is this the best way for me to make the gains I want?



    This board is too full of guys trying to be hardcore...
     
  18. ralyks

    ralyks New Member

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    No, just the ones who try it and whine that it's too hard.

    Congratulations on making yourself look like an ignorant jackass. Dropping the intensity will help your body recover - what you were whining that you needed. Pushing your body when it's strained will slow your progress alot more than dropping volume for a week or two. Fixing your diet and sleep even a bit will have a much more profound effect than removing squats.
     
  19. ralyks

    ralyks New Member

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    :rofl:

    No.

    I don't see how you can't make time to sleep or eat better. I don't know what your schedule is like but I'm sure if you wanted you could make time to sleep an extra hour. Eating right is cake, if you can spare 20minutes twice a week you can make enough veggies/chicken breasts to last you 3-4 days - eat that instead of junk and voila you have a good diet.
     
  20. Layman

    Layman New Member

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    Are you reading the same thread I'm posting in? WTF is wrong with some of you people?

    I'm not complaining about the intensity. I LIKE walking around sore. I like feeling like I've given it all my effort. I like struggling to finish my sets at the gym on Mondays...

    But I know my body, I know my schedule, and I know I'm not recovering enough to warrant the routine. I don't get enough sleep, I don't eat well enough (which is a challenge given my job), and I don't have the opportunity to change that.

    I'm clearly not as cool and hardcore as everybody else on this board, but at least I'm honest.


    This makes zero sense. So instead of lifting 90% of max (or whatever), I lift 80%. No kidding I'll be able to recover faster, but I'll still progress slower, right? I'm trying to avoid that slow-down. I don't buy into the notion that I need to do squats three times a week in order to progress.

    And I know sleep and diet would help more. It's not like I hadn't thought of that... I'm trying to figure out a reasonable workaround given my current situation.
     
  21. Layman

    Layman New Member

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    How is that funny? I could, but it would be totally counterproductive - just as I feel that doing it three times a week is now.


    Because half the time I'm running from client site to client site, grabbing a bite to eat wherever I can. And sleep isn't always a function of getting in bed earlier. Sometimes I have things on my mind that keep me awake or a deliverable that I need to work on until early in the morning.

    I'm glad everybody here leads such predictable and accomodating lives, but that's simply not the case for much of the world.
     
  22. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    Look if you want to gain numbers (whether in strength or weight) you need to dedicate yourself to it at least enough to sleep and eat correctly just like you're trying to figure out how to work out correctly. It's all relative, and you need to adapt to the lifestyle or stop complaining about not making maximal gains/recovery when you aren't doing 2/3 of what you're supposed to be doing correctly.


    It seems like you just want a shortcut but we're saying it's unreasonable... Nobody is trying to be hardcore, they just know how to go about doing the things that it seems like you want, but you aren't willing to work as hard for them.
     
  23. Layman

    Layman New Member

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    Not everybody here wants to be a Maine or Pur or Christophers.

    I want to be strong and fit. I want to continue progressing in those areas.


    But I have a life outside of this. I have a career, a wife, friends, other activies... I've never said I'm making this my life and I never will. I'm trying to make as much progress as my situation allows. I don't see what's unreasonable about that.
     
  24. Skeletor

    Skeletor Guest

    Well you say you have a busy life, but we have no idea of what that entails.


    I guess stick with 5x5 if you like it, compound movements (isolation will only take up more time obviously), maybe try something like a 3 day split... Day 1 bench press and variations, day 2 dead lifts, pull ups, day 3 squats, lunges, etc.

    That oughta cut down the time and you'll still be able to see some gains I think, plus you wouldn't be exhausting yourself to the point where you don't feel recovered, since you'll have a week between working out the same muscle groups.


    edit: obviously you'd need some midsection trianing but you could do that at home in your spare time if you have a floor space for crunches and preferably a bar to hang from for leg raises.
     
  25. Durk

    Durk New Member

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