GUN Akin's sueing BATF

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by TL1000RSquid, Mar 4, 2008.

  1. TL1000RSquid

    TL1000RSquid ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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    http://www.georgiapacking.org/docs/akins/Complaint_with_exhibits.pdf

    Cliffs:
    Count 1
    Regulatory Takings
    40. By ruling that the Akins Accelerator is a machine gun, after first ruling that it was
    not, and by applying the provisions of 18 U.S.C. § 922(o) retroactively to Akins
    Group, Inc. (who produced and distributed Akins Accelerators at a time when they were not considered to be machine guns), and to Plaintiff Akins personally,
    Defendant has taken Plaintiff s private property for public use without just
    compensation, in violation of the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution of the United
    States.

    Count 2
    Physical Takings
    41. By confiscating the spring from Plaintiff s Akins Accelerators, Defendant has taken
    Plaintiff s private property for public use without just compensation, in violation of
    the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.


    Count 3
    Violation of Due Process
    42. By determining that Plaintiff s property was a machine gun without a hearing,
    Defendant failed to provide Plaintiffs with the due process of law.
    43. In classifying the Akins Accelerator as a machine gun, Defendant acted arbitrarily,
    capriciously, and without factual basis.



    Demand for Relief
    Plaintiffs demand the following relief:
    1. Damages to compensate Plaintiff for the taking of his property.
    2. A declaration that the Akins Accelerator is not a machine gun.
    3. An injunction prohibiting Defendant from treating the Akins Accelerator as a machine
    gun for any purpose.
    4. Any other relief the Court deems proper.
     
  2. minus

    minus Damn you, Damn the Broccoli, and Damn the Wright B

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    If the suit passes I so want in on one of these.
     
  3. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

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  4. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    it was just a bump-fire thing, right? Pretty sure that's been addressed as legal, although silly.

    It also seems that they deemed it legal, initially, then changed their mind -- but confiscated product produced while the "legal" ruling was in place... That's def not legal, imo.

    I hope he wins. I'd never own that product because bumpfire is just a way to waste ammo... But I don't think others shouldn't have the option of owning it if that's what they want.
     
  5. mvizos

    mvizos New Member

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    bumpfiring is "silly" because you've really got no control over where your shots were going most of the time. Watch the video of the akins accelerator. MUCH more controllable.

    If these come back out, and with wood stocks instead of those shitty plastic stocks, I'd be all over it.
     
  6. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    regardless, it seems he has a solid case. And the rule from the ATF was that it wasn't full auto as long as 1 pull of the "trigger" would fire no more than 1 round... So his device seems to satisfy that requirement.
     
  7. Keesh

    Keesh New Member

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    Good, they deserve to win. A lot of people spent money on them and the ATF really bent them over and fucked them.
     
  8. mvizos

    mvizos New Member

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    I agree. I believe he followed the law, and I'd love to have one of his devices. I'm simply saying that this isn't "silly" the way normal bumpfiring is, because unlike normal bumpfiring, you can still be on target.

    I agree that this is not a machine gun.
     
  9. mattsb2000

    mattsb2000 OT Supporter

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  10. jeepilot

    jeepilot Banned

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    I can understand the ATF deeming it as a machine guns since it can operate like one, even though it is a stock modification, but if they do keep it as a machine gun, they need to give the people that bought them the $1000 or so that they paid for it. Or just don't call it a machine gun, and let everyone return back to normal.
     
  11. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    No, they already deemed it NOT a machine gun. So if they're going to change their minds then they need to let those who had it KEEP it... It would be grandfathered in.
     
  12. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    Code:
                       DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
                 BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
                          WASHINGTON, DC 20226
    
                             AUG 14 1997                   E:CE:FT:CHB
                                                           3311
    Dear Mr. :
    
    This refers to your letter of July 10, 1997, in which you ask about
    an HK-91 semiautomatic rifle which had been converted into a
    machinegun and then converted back to semiautomatic configuration.
    
    [B]As defined in section 5845(b) of Title 26, United States Code, the
    term "[COLOR="Red"]machinegun[/COLOR]" means any weapon which shoots, is designed
    to shoot, or can be readily restored to [COLOR="#ff0000"]shoot automatically more than
    one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger[/COLOR].
    The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon,
    any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination
    of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a. weapon into a
    machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can
    be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control 
    of a person.[/B]
    
    An HK-91 rifle which shoots automatically is a machinegun as
    defined. A "Fleming" HK auto sear which is designed and intended
    for use in converting a semiautomatic HK firearm to shoot
    automatically is a machinegun. An HK receiver having a receiver
    designed to accept a "push pin" grip housing is a machinegun.
    Various other modifications or combinations of parts could also
    meet the definition of a machinegun.
    
    You advise that you had an HK-91 rifle converted into a machinegun
    with a registered "Fleming" registered sear. The model designation
    was remarked "G3" and "Fleming Firearms" was marked on the
    receiver. The receiver was not modified and still requires a
    semiautomatic "clip on" grip housing. You sold the firearm with the
    G3 bolt carrier, but retained the registered sear.
    
                                   -2-
    
    If the receiver had not been modified, the mere fact that the
    receiver was marked with the "G3" machinegun model designation
    would not place the receiver within the definition of a machinegun.
    However, such marking would likely constitute reasonable cause for
    any law enforcement officer to believe that the weapon may be a
    machinegun.
    
    Installation of a "Fleming" HK auto sear normally requires
    modification of several components and several additional parts.
    The grip housing needs to be modified to permit the selector to
    move to the automatic position. The trigger stop needs to be
    removed from the inside of the trigger housing. A machinegun
    hammer, bolt carrier, and trip lever need to be installed. Once
    modified, the weapon may still be capable of automatic fire even if
    the "registered sear" is removed. Further, the modified components
    could constitute a combination of parts designed and intended for
    use in converting a weapon into a machinegun.
    
    In order to ensure that the weapon would not meet the definition of
    a machinegun, all machinegun parts and modified parts should be
    removed and all original unmodified semiautomatic parts should be
    re-installed. The modified parts and additional parts should be
    retained with the "registered sear."
    
    In addition, restoring the firearm back to semiautomatic
    configuration could result in a violation of Sections 922(r) and
    922(v) of Title 18, United States Code. Section 922(r) provides
    that it shall be unlawful for anyone to assemble from imported
    parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to
    any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under Section
    925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable or
    readily adaptable to sporting purposes... Except as provided in
    Section 922(v) it shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture,
    transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon. we are
    enclosing information concerning Sections 922(r) and 922(v) for
    your information.
    
                                   -3-
    
    If the barrel of the rifle was less than 16 inches in length or if
    the overall length is less than 26 inches, the firearm would still
    be subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act (Title 26
    United States Code, Chapter 53). In order for us to render any
    final opinion regarding the status of the firearm, we would need to
    examine it.
    
    We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If
    you have further questions concerning this matter, please contact
    us.
    
                            Sincerely yours,
    
                                [signed]
                          Edward M. Owen, Jr. 
                    Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
    
    Enclosures
    Akin's product does NOT create a machine gun because only one shot is fired per pull of the trigger.
     
  13. jeepilot

    jeepilot Banned

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    right, I don't agree with it, since the trigger moves each time. It's the same as bump firing, just with a stock instead of you moving the entire gun.

    I understand why they may reason it that way, but I don't agree with it. they're .gov, so not everything seems logical.
     
  14. Emfuser

    Emfuser Nuclear Moderator Super Moderator

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    That's an ingenious means of achieving automatic fire. :bowrofl:

    By the legal/technical definition in NFA, it is not a machine gun, but those of you who think this guy is easily in the clear underestimate the tenacity of the government in fights like these. I would not be surprised if the courts uphold the "new" determination that this is a machine gun.

    I do, however, agree that just compensation is due for property taken.
     
  15. mattsb2000

    mattsb2000 OT Supporter

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    Didn't ATF say that a shoestring attached to an M1 to do this was illegal? I could have swore I read something retarded like that.
     
  16. minus

    minus Damn you, Damn the Broccoli, and Damn the Wright B

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  17. mattsb2000

    mattsb2000 OT Supporter

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  18. Alphaeus

    Alphaeus New Member

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    :bowdown:

    I just hope they get a good judge. The wrong judge will just throw this out regardless of the the lawsuits legitimacy.
     
  19. mzmtg

    mzmtg New Member

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  20. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    by the definition that the ATF had provided (and I previously quoted in this thread) the shoestring DID make it a machine gun... Because the shoestring turned the traditional "trigger" into a "sear"... The loop at the end of the string became the new "trigger" and a single pull of the trigger would thus result in the firing of more than 1 round.

    Therefore the ATF was correct in deeming the shoestring a machinegun. However, this stock does not satisfy the term "machinegun" by their own definition.
     
  21. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

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    I dont know how this thing works.

    But every video Ive seen of them, the person is clearly holding the trigger down as far as I can tell.
     
  22. P07r0457

    P07r0457 New Member

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    it works by having a "loose" stock. The receiver is attached to a spring which is attached to the stock. Therefore, when the firearm is fired, the receiver moves rearward from the trigger finger. the spring pushes the receiver forward again and the trigger finger once again applies pressure to the trigger and another round is fired.

    Basically instead of the trigger being in the same position and your finger moving back and forth, this product allows you to keep your finger in the same position and the receiver will bounce off your finger to have repeated shots until you move your finger.

    By the ATF's definition, the firearm fires only once per trigger pull.
     
  23. ZCP M3

    ZCP M3 Active Member

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    FUCKINGWANT! :eek5:
     
  24. david_4x4

    david_4x4 New Member

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    So the recoil is contained in whatever godly stock it's in. While it looks like the trigger is being held down, the receiver and entire gun are actually moving back and forth off these springs in this stock?
     
  25. mvizos

    mvizos New Member

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    Watch the video in post 9. Around 27 seconds they give you a closeup of the receiver, and you can see it's moving back & forth.
     

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