GUN AK47 vs. M16 vs. G36/G3

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by Possum Stomper, Feb 6, 2003.

  1. Possum Stomper

    Possum Stomper The Great Bird of the Galaxy

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    i am just interested to know what all you gun nuts think of these respective rifles in the following categories:

    1. all around combat/user friendliness
    2. ranged shooting/accuracy
    3. ammo (avaliabilty/price/stopping power)
    4. intimidation factor
     
  2. TwoGuns

    TwoGuns Medical Crew

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    Number 4 shouldn't be there.
     
  3. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

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    1) To me, the ergonomics of the G36 are best out of that group, followed by a G3, with the M16 behind that. The AK wasn't really designed for that.

    2) Again, the G36 seems marginally more accurate at ~200yrd range than the G3 or M16. The AK wasn't really designed for that. The G3 would be the best choice for anything ~300yrds+ simply based on its caliber.

    3) i've found quality 5.56mm or 7.62x51mm easier to come by in the US than quality 7.62x39mm, but since an AK will eat anything, its not much of an issue. The 7.62x39 is cheaper and will usually offer better knockdown from a sub 20" barrel compared to 5.56mm, but the 7.62x51mm puts substantially more energy on target than either of the other two. (At the expense of being the most costly and heaviest recoil.)

    4) :wtf:
     
  4. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    intimidation factor is what caused the damn "assault weapons ban". the fact that things LOOK scary. after all, you know that a flash suppressor and a bayonet make a rifle SO much more dangerous. who the hell cares what it looks like. if it does what it's supposed to, your foe won't get to look at it in time to care.
     
  5. Vatoloco

    Vatoloco In a pinch, though, you could jam it into someone'

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    :wavey:

    Most of us that buy them care. Even though, for some reason, most of you won't admit it.

    But I bet most of the same people would admit to wanting something like a 1966 Oldsmobile 442 not only because it's got a big engine and good performance but because it looks mean too!

    I like assault rifles because they perform well AND because they look serious! And, for the record, I think the AR-15/M16 is the most "intimidating".
     
  6. Possum Stomper

    Possum Stomper The Great Bird of the Galaxy

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    well, i am glad someone saw my point about #4:fawk:
    allow me to calrify that last point...
    what gun gets you the most excited to look/hold/shoot
    intimidation factor wasn't a good choice of words, how about gawk factor?
     
  7. TwoGuns

    TwoGuns Medical Crew

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    Wolf 7.62x39 is quality ammo. You can get 1000 rounds for $70.00 I'd say that puts it at an advantage.
     
  8. KW

    KW Guest

    In terms of user friendliness the AR and the G36 are probably the best(keep in mind that the G36 has never seen serious combat and is an unknown factor in many ways). They are lightweight, more modern designs built with ergonomics in mind, both can be had in multiple barrel legnths and can accept lots of accesories. I would rate the G3 behind these two due to it's size and weight, and the AK last due to it's poor ergonomics and weight.

    As for accuracy there is not much to choose between the G3, G36 and AR systems. A good example of any of these rifles can shoot 1moa. Obviously at longer ranges the 7.62x51 starts to gain an advantage due to its weight. The AK's poor sights and short sight radius place it last in this catagory as well. It's accuracy is acceptable for short range fire fights, but it would be at a serious disadvantage against the other three at longer ranges.

    As far as ammo there are a couple different ways to look at it. If you consider any available load in any of the calibers, the 7.62x51 is obviously the best - in accuracy and lethality. However for military use, most soldiers will be restricted to FMJ ammo. In that case the 5.56mm is the winner, as the M855 NATO spec rounds will fragment at close range (150 yards and under from a 20" barrel) causing much nastier wounds then the 7.62x51 or 7.62x39(both of which will just put a .30 inch hole in the target0. At longer ranges the bigger rounds will have a slight advantage as the 5.56mm rounds stop fragmenting. Since most combat takes place at shorter ranges this gives the G36 and M16 a big advantage. (see www.ammo-oracle.com for a more in depth discussion of bullet fragmentation of 5.56mm ammo) Also consider that 5.56mm ammo weighs only about half as much as the larger 7.62mm rounds, so a soldier can carry twice as much for the same weight. Also due to it's lighter recoil the G36 and M16 can be fired more accurately and effectively in full-auto mode.

    As far as looks, well it's up to the individual. Check out world.guns.ru for some good pictures of all of them. I personally favor the M16/AR15 ... which is why I own one.
     
  9. Possum Stomper

    Possum Stomper The Great Bird of the Galaxy

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    pics?

    thanks for the info guys, kep it coming
    i find this utterly fascinating...

    quick question: it seems the general consnsus is that the G36 and M16 are the best rifles, why then does everyone make such a big deal out of the AK?
     
  10. fst89lx

    fst89lx Member

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    because the AK is a workhorse compared to the ar15/m16. AK's are notorious for reliability, while the ar15 tends to be temperamental. I have heard/read stories about AK's being buried in the sand and firing like a champ, having mud just caked on the action and firing like a champ, I once read about an AK thats bolt was rusted shut, guy broke it free and proceeded to fire it like it was new... I don't hear much of those stories about the m16.

    But I love my bushmaster :)
     
  11. KW

    KW Guest

    Here are some pics of my postban Bushmaster 16" shorty carbine(I managed to squeeze one of my Sig P228 in there too).

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Possum Stomper

    Possum Stomper The Great Bird of the Galaxy

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    wow...any others?:bigthumb:

    i read somewhere that the AK has an overpowered gas action, and that is why it works so damn well, hard on the parts when clean but after much use it still works like a charm

    i know that M16's jammed a whole lot in Vietnam, do they still do that? i would think that they'd have fixed that by now
     
  13. Possum Stomper

    Possum Stomper The Great Bird of the Galaxy

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    also KW, (i think i know the answer but i am gonna ask anyway) is your carbine full auto or what
    and
    how do you like the Sig?
     
  14. TwoGuns

    TwoGuns Medical Crew

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    The M16A1's used in Vietnam jammed for a couple of reasons. One reason being that they were using ball powder, as opposed to stick powder. Ball powder burns dirtier than stick powder, and they ended up using ball because it was cheaper to do so. Basically a screw up by the leaders.

    Second reason was that the guns were issued without cleaning kits, and rumors flew around that you weren't SUPPOSED to clean them.

    Nowadays, the M16A2 uses the proper ammo and now has a forward assist. A device that helps properly seat the bolt, chambering the rifle all the way, in case it gets jammed.
     
  15. Vatoloco

    Vatoloco In a pinch, though, you could jam it into someone'

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    And don't forget about the $$$ factor. Not only is ammo cheaper but you can buy 3 good AK-47's for the price of one AR-15.
     
  16. fst89lx

    fst89lx Member

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    Most jamming of current model AR-15's comes from shitty magazines. MOST hi-capacity mags that you can buy (again MOST not all) don't feed for shit. Triple-K is one I know for sure because I bought one, loaded it up and fired 2 shots out of it and I had one bullet (live shell, not a casing) jam above the bolt, and another under it! A friend of mine also purchased a hi-capacity magazine from the local sporting good store (both out mags were 30rnd btw) and his would constantly jam up on him as well. So far the only ones that we have found to work well are the Orlite magazines.

    also didn't the lack of chrome lined bores in a lot of the vietnam era m16's add to the failure rate somehow? I am not sure but I thought they touched on that one time on tales of the gun on history channel :)

    KW, how do you like your sig?? I am hoping to get a handgun this summer and I am torn between a 226 or a 1911.
     
  17. KW

    KW Guest

    My AR is semi-auto. Legal full auto AR's range anywhere from about $3500 to beyond $10,000 depending on if its an aftermarket conversion or a factory M-16. A NIB Bushmaster like mine runs about $800. For reference a good semi-auto AK can be had new for about $300. Preban HK 91's run about $2000 (the G3 in semi auto), and the SL8(closest you can get to a G36 here - ugly grey semi auto with a thumbhole stock and no hi cap mags) runs about $1200 NIB.

    As for jamming, a good milspec AR, using good ammo(preferably milspec), and USGI mags will function pretty much flawlessly. Just keep some CLP in it and clean it every 500-1000 rounds and it will give you no trouble. Most of the problems come from bad mags(this is true of most guns ... there just happen to be a lot of crappy mags out there for the AR).

    I love my Sig. Nice double-action trigger, points well, never jams. When I was looking at handguns I decided against the 1911s just because I don't like safeties. If it's dark and I'm wrestling with some crackhead, I don't want to have to worry about getting the safety off, or making sure I have the proper grip on the gun ... I want to pull the trigger and have it go bang. By the same token I didn't like the glock, because I felt it would be too easy to touch one off when drawing under pressure. Of course these are both training issues, but I prefer to have the most idiot proof system for a gun I will carry. I'm thinking about picking up a P226ST ... gotta love a classic Sig with a rail on it.
     
  18. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    my friend's select fire was $5600. but, it came with the pencil-dick barrel, and and A1 upper. so, he now has his pre-ban M4 upper with his SIR rail system, and his AAC suppressor quick-attach muzzle brake on it. knight's armament forward handgrip, soon to have either aimpoint or trijicon optics on it. i'd say that's a pretty badass looking rifle. i'll have to try to get picks once it's all together.
     
  19. Platinum_Thunder

    Platinum_Thunder Reliability for life and liberty

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    M1 > all those :fawk:
     
  20. footratfunkface

    footratfunkface New Member

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    garand? carbine? M1A? which M1?
     
  21. Platinum_Thunder

    Platinum_Thunder Reliability for life and liberty

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    M1A
     
  22. RocCrwlr74

    RocCrwlr74 Member

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    Actually Wolf is probably the worst ammo out there, AK's just don't seem to mine.
     
  23. novass

    novass Guest

    Most wolf is steel case. To prevent rust its coated with laquer. This becomes a problem when the chamber get hot and you leave a round chambered , they can stick. There is plenty of other ammo out there. I would stear clear of any steel case ammo unless you are going to war.
     
  24. fst89lx

    fst89lx Member

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    wolf is also VERY dirty, (as is most cheap ammo) and you will either have to clean your gun more frequently (I clean mine every time I shoot anyway) and or spend more time cleaning the grime out of it. BUT I will say that wolf has fed perfectly fine and shot adequately for plinking/practice purposes in my bushmaster. I will be switching to winchester white box ammo though as its still fairly cheap and at least has a brass case.
     
  25. TwoGuns

    TwoGuns Medical Crew

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    How many rounds of Wolf Ammo have you been through? I've used probably about 5,000 rounds through various guns :AK, SKS, Mini-30, and some Bolt-Action I can't remember. I've never experienced anything but reliability, and accuracy out of this ammo.

    Do you even know how many other manafacturers make 7.62x39?
     

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