Actual losers vs. seeing threats that are not there

Discussion in 'Vaginarium' started by JohnJohnJohnson, Aug 20, 2007.

  1. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    At the party, I also tooled the fuck out of some guy who I took an irrational dislike to, which is the only bit I regret from yesterday, and is somewhat of a sticking point for me: perceiving threats in my environment.

    This guy was aiming for a cocky, dominant vibe, which I pretty much reacted horribly to. For example, I looked for little weaknesses in his frame to exploit, e.g., I was the guy saying "Come dance with this girl, man", when dancing was clearly one thing he was not cocky about, when I was already dancing with her.

    He played it off, saying "No, you're doing great man." So I laughed and pointed and said "This guy is too cool to dance. ;)" He dropped the cocky tone and whined that he needed to get more drunk before he could dance. So I "won". Except not really, since I lowered another person's social value, when I should have been raising ours both.

    After he told me he needed to get more drunk I asked, "You think I know what I'm doing?"

    He said "Um, YES," turning to the HB, "Yes, he does," as if I was pretending to be bad at dancing when actually I was really good. That is really funny because I am TERRIBLE at dancing and he was subconsciously reacting to the frame game rather than the actual quality of my dancing.

    What's sad is I'm sure he's a cool guy. I was just approaching the situation as if he was a threat. He was angry later in the night so I let him vent it a bit at my expense since it was actually no loss for me.

    This is different from genuine bona fide confrontations where the other guy in question has nothing positive to offer. In those situations I'm all for negativity. For example, this man came up to us on the street to hawk a CD album he was selling. Now unfortunately whenever someone comes up to impose a sale on me I get threatened-looking body language, fight or flight subcommunications. Sometimes the guy is cool about it and backs off, other times he gets offended and chodes right up. This was one of the latter types.

    "Yo, you should listen to this CD man, it's the shit man."
    "I'm not interested."
    "Yo, you shouldn't be scared of black people," the guy said. I've gotten this before so I had a response canned.
    "Yeah," I agreed. "It's all about race."
    "So," he said, "Why is that?" (Weak, since he had been expecting me to jump the hoop and defensively apologize for some nonexistent racism.)
    "I'm just agreeing with you, man," I said.
    "Are you patronizing me man?" he said.
    "Yeah, I'm patronizing you. And if you call me an asshole I'm an asshole."
    He walked with us in silence for a minute and then told me,
    "If we were uptown, I would rob you." He started walking off.
    "I bet your cock is bigger than mine, too," I called after him.

    This is normal for me in NYC since with guys like that I'm not going to let these fuckers suck my positive energy by being nice to them. I've lived here since I was 0 and everyone has their own approach; that is mine. But like I said the guy at the party who I tooled... he was NOT some douchebag hawking CD's, so I regret the way I acted.
     
  2. hellyea2650

    hellyea2650 New Member

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  3. jackjohnson

    jackjohnson simple as something nobody knows OT Supporter

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    wait, what?
     
  4. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Am I being completely incoherent here?
     
  5. hellyea2650

    hellyea2650 New Member

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    Ok, you showed negitivity, and acknologed it. What do you want?
     
  6. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    To share my thoughts with you.

    :)
     
  7. glass

    glass New Member

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    in for overanalytical neurotic goodness.
     
  8. Sirius

    Sirius OT Supporter

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    woah sick story. You're a badass
     
  9. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    so much negativity....
     
  10. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Do you think the interaction with the CD vendor was a mistake?
     
  11. MattThom01

    MattThom01 New Member

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    I may not be the only one wondering with this...but why interact with the guy at all if you disliked him?
     
  12. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Who, the guy at the party?

    At the time, I interacted with him to boost myself at his expense.

    I got competitive when I should have been building mutual value. I regret doing it although I'm not going to cry about it.
     
  13. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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    horrible mistake from step one. you are supposing the entire interaction unfolds from ""Yo, you shouldn't be scared of black people," when you know even on a concious level that YOU started the situation with "I get threatened-looking body language, fight or flight subcommunications." when you already knew you were likely dealing with a low self esteem heavily overcompensating personality.

    now what did he do? he did exactly what you did to the guy at the party and exploited your visible weakness to make himself feel a little better.

    for instance, how much better might it have gone if it had gone....

    "So," he said, "Why is that?"

    you: Cause I hate it even more when those white people try to sell me shitty country CD's.

    or something similar that reframes you fear as irritation, your initial snub as not personal and you as strong, not weak.

    whenever you offend someone with low self esteem while looking weak to them at the same time, you just asked for negativity. either be polite or be strong. acting weak and mouthing off is about the worst case scenario. Why not script strong body language instead of the mess you came up with?

    maybe im not quite getting what you are doing. What was the desired effect on yourself of ""I bet your cock is bigger than mine, too," I called after him."? did it accomplish that?
     
  14. MattThom01

    MattThom01 New Member

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    Why not just keep walking away from the CD dealer after telling him you weren't interested? Just ignore him and keep moving on...that's what I would have done.
     
  15. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    What would you have done if he pursued you and continued to inquire about your racist tendencies? "Soft" people are nice and deserve good treatment but to some they are easy prey
     
  16. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    I see. You are right, telling him it was not personal would have been wiser. My reaction was an expression of aggression, not of thoughtfulness. It was simply, "This guy is a loser; act accordingly."

    I did achieve the desired effect with the cock comment. Since his threat was an absurd attempt to prove his manliness, I just framed it that way. The most basic version of such an attempt is a cock measuring contest. By the end of the interaction the guy came off as an angry baby throwing a tantrum. I came off as kind of a prick, but not that much of a prick, since the guy was reacting to me more than I was reacting to him.

    Going after somebody (including me) just for being physically surprised by a pushy salesman, is retarded. In no way does tensing up my shoulders "warrant" aggression from some hawker who doesn't know me. However, the guy was probably just frustrated because he had trouble selling his album and thought he found a good target for his resentment.

    It's the same type of thing as when Tyler tells guys who get feisty with him: "Yeah, let's settle this FIGHT club style. Actually... wait... what am I saying. YOu would kick my ASS man. Look at the size of your arms. You know what... let's have a flex-off."

    The reason girls enjoy this is because they tend to see the transparent dominance struggles between guys as juvenile; whereas rising above it is a breath of fresh air.

    "I'm afraid to move, I think I might slip and fall on the testosterone," is something I heard from a girl in regards to this kind of thing.
     
  17. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    So, I thought about this, and in retrospect I think I handled the second guy perfectly.

    The interaction with the CD guy is the result of a slowly developed, male equivalent to a "bitch shield."

    The problem is exactly what I said before - I am not going to let the guy suck my positivity out by being nice to him until I have no choice but to be mean. I will just be stand offish from the start. With ACTUAL threats, you should respond in military style, i.e., leave the club, call the cops, take him down fast, whatever. With social threats, you "win" by not confronting (or by not confronting as much as the other guy).

    Try using normal guidelines of politeness with people who hawk shit to you in NYC (or, poonforbid, Jamaica). They will simply take advantage of your indirectness and "positivity" until you either buy something or confront them. The alternative is to be non-reactive, express your disinterest from the start, and avoid the feeble traps they set.

    Don't view guys like this in the context of normal socializing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2007
  18. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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  19. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    Last edited: Aug 20, 2007
  20. antihero

    antihero OT Supporter

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  21. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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  22. tenxia

    tenxia OT Supporter

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    you guys are nerds. Just listen to yourselves.
     
  23. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    i understand where you're coming from, but i wouldn't want to be there. but you are probably a cool person who can offer good advice, why don't you share your input :)
     
  24. tenxia

    tenxia OT Supporter

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    are you playing the game with me now or something? :o
     
  25. JohnJohnJohnson

    JohnJohnJohnson Effetely Sipping My Latte OT Supporter

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    no, i just wanted to get better input from you. no offense

    i am definitely a nerd sometimes btw.
     

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