GUN AAR - Robust Pistol Manipulation w/ Paul Gomez - March 7 & 8, 2009

Discussion in 'On Topic' started by spankaveli, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. spankaveli

    spankaveli OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    16,466
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    LA. State, not City.
    This is long winded. There are no cliff-notes. I wrote it this long because I wanted to include what I learned and stuck into my head as well as give appropriate thanks to Paul who put on an amazing two day class that touched on a significant amount of things as well as gave everyone a great baseline for what they need to work on and practice in their off time as well as, I assume, an idea of what they need to work on more-so than other things.

    Please forgive me if I miss anything. For the last class I attended, I had the luxury of writing each day's AAR that evening while everything was, for the most part, fresh in my mind. Suffice it to say, I did not this time.

    This class was really an eye opener for me.

    Day one consisted of two handed shooting from various positions. The class started as most do. Introductions, safety briefing, etc. Then Paul did his normal "hey guys, what do you do if someone gets shot?" and opened alot of eyes. I'd heard it before so I was prepared. Not to say I had a blow out bag or knew where the nearest hospital was but I knew he was going to open some eyes.

    We started out with drawstroke, did some sighting routines, worked alot on malfunction clearances (diagnostic and non-diagnostic), reloads, shooting from inside of full extension. Paul's technique of drawstroke is unique in that it is universal regardless of body position (seated, standing, lying on back) or direction (forward of you, left, right). It works whether you're in a car, at a restaurant booth, sitting at a bar or walking down the street. What, I suppose, struck me the most from day one was sight picture, sight alignment, etc variances and how their weight not prohibitively impacting on accuracy at fighting distances. Focus on the gun, the front sight or the target and within 5-7 feet your hits will be where you put them. The malfunction drills were eye-opening for me as well as I'd never really worked more than a handful of malfunction clearances and never really worked on double-feeds.

    There was also a large emphasis, as I was aware of from before, with hips square, nose over toes posture. As was stated, often times a gun is either not the appropriate tool for the job or might not be accessible. Furthermore, it is significantly higher probably that your fight will start without warning and you need to be able to survive the initial attack and press the fight as opposed to being pushed back. As such, you need to have a good platform to absorb a crash impact and be able to fend off an attack and then utilize weapons if necessary and acceptable.

    Paul is also big on repeatable indexes being placed into unconscious memory so, a few scenarios will lead you to the same place and be able to get you on track sooner. Specifically, elbow into abdomen and fist at eye level with your muzzle pointed up is not only your stoppage reduction position but it's your assessment position and your movement position as well. from there, regardless of previous situation, you're back to position two, then three, then driving forward (as necessary) into position four.

    About the drawstroke, count one is given as a full firing grip on the firearm. As you go into count one, your offhand comes high on the chest. Count two has the handgun coming straight up a vertical line, shoulder muscle bunched, elbow pointing straight up and rearward and the gun at a diagonal-ish angle pointed in front of you. This serves both as a retention position from a gun-handling standpoint as well as a fundamental position to be able to shoot from at contact distance. Count three has the gun coming across the front of the chest with you flagged thumb in contact with the chest until it meets the center where your offhand makes contact with the gun and grips it as well. Count three is also when the gun first comes into your peripheral vision. Count four is variable in that it's definition is "appropriate contraction or expansion depending on distance from threat." Meaning it could be arms fully extended or it could be just far enough that you can have the gun, and sights, at eye level.

    Not my pictures, I stole them from his Drawstroke 101 thread.
    Count 1:
    [​IMG]
    Count 2:
    [​IMG]
    Count 3:
    [​IMG]
    Count 4: (full extension)
    [​IMG]

    We also did a good bit of work seated and also off our backs. Shooting from lying completely down, to sitting up, to kneeling, then to standing. This is to, of course, simulate coming into a fight after being knocked on your ass/and or shot and realizing, at that point, you're in a fight.

    I'm sure there was alot more but I was sick Saturday, barely made it home and passed out about an hour later after taking Nyquil Night time, Tylenol Extra Strength and some anti-biotics.

    The second day's whole emphasis was on safely performing routines from day one (drawstroke, reload, type 1 and 2 malfunction clearances) with one hand only. Both strong hand and weak hand. This is very eye opening for everyone as no one really realized how much you need your other hand when it's time to draw your pistol with your offhand, shoot, perform a reload, possibly clear a malfunction, etc. This is where the whole "Novak sights suck" come into play. The simplest (for lack of a better term) way of doing most of this work is, of course, by running the gun using the rear sight against the edge of either your belt (if it's sturdy enough) or your pants pocket. Conversely, if you are already behind cover you can use your shoe or trap the weapon between your knees. Obviously this cannot be done if you are on the move, hence the "if you are already behind cover." Reloads were interesting but much easier after a bit of practice. Upon slide lock, tap/rack, release mag, shove gun into waistband, retrieve magazine, seat magazine, rack, work. Type 1 malfunction is as simple as tapping the magazine on your belt (or leg, whatever) and racking it using the above mentioned method. Type 2 is a whole new ballgame. It quickly becomes apparent that it's quite difficult to, with one hand, lock back the slide on your pistol then release the magazine, rack several times, reload, rack and work.

    We also worked on firing through the drawstroke and the usage of vertical and horizontal elbows as defensive moves to keep our attackers at a distance far enough away to retrieve necessary tools. We started with a vertical elbow and in count two of drawstroke, firing one-handed through count three and then four, pausing, back into count three then back to four two handed then firing towards the target from four to three then back to two utilizing a horizontal elbow. As was demonstrated, with proper technique, both are very capable of disallowing someone from getting "within your space."

    We also worked a bit on seated draw stroke again but this time chairs were placed facing in different directions. We shot at a target behind us, to our strong side (one handed), to our weak side (two handed) and in front.

    The end of the day Sunday consisted of a series of 11 or so firing strings utilizing the procedures we had learned. This was a timed exercise but times were recorded solely to give everyone a benchmark for something to work towards.

    These are from memory as my book is at home but it was:

    String 1. Draw & fire 5 rounds from concealment both hands.
    String 2. Draw & fire 5 rounds from concealment strong hand only
    String 3. Draw & fire 5 rounds from concealment weak hand only
    String 4. Fire 1 round (to slidelock), perform reload and fire one round both hands.
    String 5. Fire 1 round (to slidelock), perform reload and fire one round strong hand only.
    String 6. Fire 1 round (to slidelock), perform reload and fire one round weak hand only
    String 7. Fire 4 live rounds (one dummy round was placed somewhere within) using both hands.
    String 8. Fire 4 live rounds (one dummy round was placed somewhere within) using primary hand only
    String 9. Fire 4 live rounds (one dummy round was placed somewhere within) using weak hand only.
    String 10. Starting with a double feed, clear and fire two rounds using both hands.
    String 11. Starting with a double feed, clear and fire two rounds using strong hand only.
    String 12. Starting with a double feed, clear and fire two rounds using weak hand only.

    Needless to say, strong hand and weak hand only is very eye opening by itself, even more so when you know, even though you are not worried about the time, that there is a timer running.

    There was also a heavy suggestion for anyone involved in shooting sports to obtain some sort of medical training and carry with them, at all times, a compact medical kit to deal with traumatic injuries. This is something most people pay no mind to. I'd heard it before from him and am aware of the necessity but I saw many eyes open when he mentioned something about a perfect shooting then fast-forward to your child screaming because they took a stray bullet and having to watch them bleed out because, just like cops, ambulances aren't always seconds away. It makes it worse because, as most people know, EMT cannot enter a scene of violence until police have deemed it okay.
     
  2. TATEROTE

    TATEROTE OT Supporter

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,965
    Likes Received:
    0
  3. Paul Revere

    Paul Revere OT Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2003
    Messages:
    38,961
    Likes Received:
    198
    Location:
    Cali-NO NFA-fornia
  4. wickedgun

    wickedgun New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    0
    sounds very informative, but basic.
     
  5. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    18,944
    Likes Received:
    0
  6. spankaveli

    spankaveli OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    16,466
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    LA. State, not City.
    The point that was reinforced is that it's very important to have a solid base of skills to build upon. I haven't seen very many entry-level classes that go much further than that. Maybe you can point me in the right direction as I'd be glad to check it out.

    Besides, it could be me but I don't think one handed double feed clearing is very "basic."
     
  7. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,925
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    MINDSET
    Oh that wacky Paul Gomez.

    Good job keeping up your professional training.

    Also, if you've heard the medical lecture before and haven't changed your behavior, you haven't listened. Stop fucking around. Go buy a blow out kit and learn the basics of its use. The life you save may be your own.
     
  8. spankaveli

    spankaveli OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    16,466
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    LA. State, not City.
    :hs:

    Good point.

    He suggested the VOK. Opinions?
     
  9. spankaveli

    spankaveli OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    16,466
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    LA. State, not City.
    Some pictures. :o

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    18,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    I spy a new member lurking in hurr. :squint:
     
  11. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,925
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    MINDSET
    The VOK is a great kit. The price is right and it has most of the major components you might need.

    Buy two: one to train and practice with and one to keep sealed to use in an emergency.

    Do it.
     
  12. Gomez

    Gomez New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just passing through.:wavey:
     
  13. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    124,671
    Likes Received:
    769
    Location:
    Your mother.
    wtf is a blow out kit
     
  14. Gomez

    Gomez New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's a small med kit designed to deal with the three most common lifethreatening traumatic injuries...blood loss, airway compromise and tension pneumo.
     
  15. hsmith

    hsmith OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    124,671
    Likes Received:
    769
    Location:
    Your mother.
    :cool:
     
  16. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    18,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Like, you have quick patch for your tires if you have a blow out.

    But just for people instead.
     
  17. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    49,903
    Likes Received:
    82
    Too bad 99.99% of the people dont know how to treat any of them
     
  18. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    18,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    Decompressing a pneumo could take 10 minutes to learn properly, but otherwise:
    air goes in and out, blood goes 'round and 'round. Deviations are bad and should be fixed.

    The only real zen thing about specializing in emergent medical care is learning to not get tunnel vision on one injury and put yourself in danger or miss other, potentially more serious injuries.

    Everything else is pretty much common sense. You know how a body is supposed to look, and the basics of how it works. Keep it that way or put it back that way.
     
  19. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    49,903
    Likes Received:
    82
    Giving an IV is not "common sense" fuck I know nurses who still cant do that shit

    Yea and treating tension pneumo is something you can explain to someone to in 10mins but than have them try it on a dummy. All kinds of fucked up shit happens.
     
  20. kellyclan

    kellyclan She only loves you when she's drunk.

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    18,944
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's why the BOK concept doesn't deal with IV's or most invasive procedures. It's basic, immediate, and most critical treatment of penetrating trauma. Keep them breathing, stop them bleeding.

    Basic care within minutes of injury is proven to save more lives than any advanced procedure you could do in the first 60 minutes.
     
  21. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,925
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    MINDSET
    Isn't this what training is for?

    Ignorance is a solvable problem.
     
  22. ShackleMeNot

    ShackleMeNot MINDSET

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    1,925
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    MINDSET
    Well hello sir.
     
  23. spankaveli

    spankaveli OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    16,466
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    LA. State, not City.
    Welcome. :wavey:
     
  24. LancerV

    LancerV Something Happened OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    49,903
    Likes Received:
    82
    Shoving a 14ga needle through someones intercostal space isn't invasive? Or does it just have what you need to make a butterfly valve? Havent really ever looked at one

    But yea if you stop the bleeding and they already have too much blood loss it isnt going to do you much good since your body is still likely to go into shock
     
  25. spankaveli

    spankaveli OT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    16,466
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    LA. State, not City.
    Brought book from home. :o

    String 1. Draw & fire 5 rounds from concealment both hands. Par 3 / Me 2.89
    String 2. Draw & fire 5 rounds from concealment strong hand only. Par 3 / Me 3.31
    String 3. Draw & fire 5 rounds from concealment weak hand only Par 5 / Me 5.08
    String 4. Fire 1 round (to slidelock), perform reload and fire one round both hands. Par 5 / Me 4.74 (grabbed my shirt along with my mag )
    String 5. Fire 1 round (to slidelock), perform reload and fire one round strong hand only. Par 5 / Me 10.85
    String 6. Fire 1 round (to slidelock), perform reload and fire one round weak hand only Par 5 / Me 16.61
    String 7. Fire 4 live rounds (one dummy round was placed somewhere within) using both hands. Par 5 / Me 2.18 (actually had two malfunctions because of a light primer strike)
    String 8. Fire 4 live rounds (one dummy round was placed somewhere within) using primary hand only Par 5 / Me 4.03
    String 9. Fire 4 live rounds (one dummy round was placed somewhere within) using weak hand only. Par 5 / Me 12.66 (fucked up that one, should be no different than primary hand only)
    String 10. Starting with a double feed, clear and fire two rounds using both hands. Par 10 / Me 6.14
    String 11. Starting with a double feed, clear and fire two rounds using strong hand only. Par 10 / Me 17.95
    String 12. Starting with a double feed, clear and fire two rounds using weak hand only. Par 10 / Me 38.06 (again, should be no different than primary hand only)

    I actually went a bit faster than I should have. I think 4 or 5 out of the 39 shots were outside of the 8" target circle. The general consensus is that I need to slow down. :hs:
     

Share This Page