60Wx4 vs 50Wx4

Discussion in 'OT Technology' started by interstate, Feb 26, 2005.

  1. interstate

    interstate New Member

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    I'm looking at some Pioneer Premier headunits and just curious if the extra 10W makes much of a difference.. I'm going for optimal sound quality out of my stock speakers and HU, would that extra bit make much of a difference, especially if I am concerned about distortion at high volume?

    The units I am looking at are the DEH-P8MP (60Wx4) and the DEH-P770MP (50W)

    I may look at expanding in the future to amps and poss a subwoofer..
     
  2. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    Yea, they most likely won't put out anything close to 60 or 50watts RMS. Peak, sure. If you are concerned with sound quality, and distortion, then do not buy a new head unit, buy a quality amplifier. What are you spending on that HU? ~$300? Well, put that $300 towards a nice 4 channel or 2 channel (throw away your rear speakers :noes:) amp and you will be MUCH happier with the sound, gaurenteed.

    In summary, don't even pay attention to the speaker level output levels of HU's if you want sound quality, because if you want sound quality you will want a seperate amp and won't even bother with the HU's internal amp. What you should care about is THD, and the voltage of the preouts. Most claim 4V, but are closer to 3 or so. The Pioneer Premiere should have good preouts though, like Alpine, and Eclipse even has 8V on its top model.
     
  3. johnson

    johnson New Member

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    Why would you not use rear speakers? Ive read about the fronts having more of an impact on music but I dont remember it in detail.
     
  4. interstate

    interstate New Member

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    Well, I am getting a new HU anyways, I need one for a few reasons.. I don't really know if I need an amp... It's not that big of a deal right now.. maybe after I get the new HU installed, if I still want it to sound better I'll consider it.. Besides I don't know enuigh to install it myself, and im not paying a local place to install it! :rofl:
     
  5. interstate

    interstate New Member

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    I guess I'll jsut go with the cheaper HU...
     
  6. 04

    04 Guest

    Considering THD on almost every headunit these days is below audible levels, I wouldnt base buying a headunit or any other amplifier on that. A unit that has 1 percent THD will sound the same as one with .001 percent THD, all other factors equal. Then you have to take into account that not all manufacturers rate THD the same way, and it makes comparing the specification extremely difficult.

    http://www.gedlee.com/distortion_perception.htm
     
  7. 04

    04 Guest

    I would suggest doing that. IMO unless you need the extra features associated with the more expensive headunit, you'd be better off spending the money on better speakers or an amplifier (if that's what you want to do).

    If you're concerned with performance at high volumes, and dont want to mess with putting in an external amplifier, you might want to look into the Alpine V-drive series of headunits (if they still sell them). They have an internal power supply that allows them to put out more power than other headunits.
     
  8. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    .. Ok, I said that in a rush of things to look for, however you must admit that in general the higher quality amplifiers all have lower THD specs than shitty amplifiers. Unless of course we are talking about valve amps, but I don't think he is gonna put a valve amp in his car. ;)
     
  9. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    Alright, all I'm saying is that if you are looking for sound quality, minimal distortion, and ability to play things loud, you need an external amp. Buying a HU to solve those problems is pretty futile. It isn't that difficult to install an amp, and most amps come with instructions. The only hard part is running power wires through your firewall (usually there is a hole) and speaker wires and interconnects up to the head unit in the dash. And by hard I mean PITA, not really complex. Good learning experience.
     
  10. 04

    04 Guest

    http://www.genesiscaraudio.net/amps/spec.html
    http://www.arcaudio.com/arc-05/pdf/xxk_amp.pdf
    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-lFajV2...0&id=detailed_info&i=158XM2100#Specifications

    The Genesis amplifier's THD at rated power is .1 percent.

    The Sony amplifier's THD at rated power is .04 percent.

    The Arc amplifiers are rated at >.05 percent.

    They are all solid state amplifiers.

    I personally would consider the Genesis and Arc amplifiers to be better than the Sony. If we looked at build quality, I am almost positive that the Genesis and Arc would beat the Sony. Yet the Arc and Genesis have a higher THD than the Sony.

    Comparing THD values is similar to comparing slew rate, S/N ratio, channel seperation, and other features between amplifiers. They are all measured differently, and cannot be used to compare the quality of the amplifier, unless the values are extremely high (or low).
     
  11. IgnitionGSR

    IgnitionGSR OT Abuser

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    dude the average deck outputs about 20W RMS...
     
  12. twistid

    twistid Banged By Super Models Moderator

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    on average...
    45=16
    50=18
    60=22
     
  13. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    Well, if you are converting peak values to RMS you are very off. Peak to RMS conversions for those values are:
    45=31.8
    50=35.4
    60=42.4

    Just do P_rms = P_peak / sqrt(2). Of course, they probably won't be that high, but I doubt they will be half of what I listed, which is what you listed.
     
  14. twistid

    twistid Banged By Super Models Moderator

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    [​IMG]
    since they can not exagerate by showing the peak power on decks anymore, they have to show the rms... and everyone has to go by the same standards in testing, to be compliant... then yes what i stated is true... thank you very much, have a wonderific day.
     
  15. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    lol, just say they are RMS values then, no need to be a dick about it. I hope you have a wonderful day too.
     
  16. 04

    04 Guest


    For sinusodial POWER, peak is 2x RMS. For voltage and current, peak is 1.41x RMS. Therefore, you are very off, and twistid's values are much closer to the actual amount.

    The "Peak" value on headunits does not appear to coorespond to any real rating, as the measured RMS power is rarely close to 1/2 the advertised peak value.
     
  17. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    There's something about you 04...

    I wonder if we would get along in real life lol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2005
  18. 04

    04 Guest

    No, we wouldnt get along in real life, because I would probably ignore you after talking to you once or twice.

    I don't usually associate myself with people who can't admit they're wrong.
     
  19. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    I've thought better of my reply to you, and decided you have never been more right in your life than you are about us not getting along in real life.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2005
  20. 04

    04 Guest

    You just ignored my statement, which corrected your very basic error, and instead post something else completely off topic, for whatever other reason.

    I've tried to be patient with you, but I can only tolerate so much. :) You posting that rediculous statement just set me off.

    P.S. real classy on calling me a prick :bigthumb:
     
  21. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    Sigh, you quoted me before I had a chance to edit my post. You'll see I changed my mind.

    I don't know what I said that was rediculous. I'm so immensely sorry for forgetting root 2 applies to current and voltage not power. I kneel before you and ask your forgiveness for such a blunder.

    I ignored it because you were obviously mocking me with your tone. Yes, you are right, and I am wrong.

    Btw, your post to me wasn't exactly the most mild mannered either, you set me off that time.
     
  22. 04

    04 Guest

    I could care less about your mistake between calculating rms and peak. We all make mistakes. What offends me is that you tell twistid that he's wrong, and use a rude tone with him. Then you post a flamebait response when I correct your mistake with the same tone.

    Pot. Kettle. Black. I used the SAME language you used with twistid. Read your post to his response, then read mine. You will notice similarities.

    If you had said nothing, it wouldnt have bothered me at all. If you had said, oops, my bad, that would be fine too. But you had to post this:
    What exactly were you trying to achieve with that response?

    I'll give you this, you certainly know how to push people's buttons.
     
  23. veonake

    veonake OnT poster, OT lurker

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    While my tone was admittedly a little rude, only because I used the word "very", but I was not mocking him, you certainly were mocking me.
    See above.
    What were you trying to achieve with yours man? You mock my tone and expect me to just say "sorry, I made a mistake"? No, things don't work that way.
    You're right, I do if I want to. You are also good at the same thing, which is partially why I asked the question about us getting along. It seems we have similar interests, but very conflicting, yet similar, personalities.

    Edit: Let's both pat ourselves on the back to turning this guy's thread into one big clusterfuck.
     
  24. Ronin

    Ronin Guest

    herez my captain mcallistor statement for this thread:

    when getting a HU, look for features and compatibility, go cheap as possible while still having clean good looks, mp3 support, and all that stuff (i forget the name of it but its the support that shows the names of radio stations when you tune them in, i always thought that was kool)

    Get a line driver to boost ur voltage to levels of ownage, then get a amp (i bet if u shopped around u could get a good enough for like 75 bucks) to power those front speakers. You should get clean sound out of a line driver/amp combo.

    that is my n00bish 2 cents.
     
  25. 04

    04 Guest

    My apologies, KungFuJared, for ruining yet another one of your threads :(
     

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